Strategic Workforce Planning Master Class

Transcription

[0:00:33] John Lynch: Everybody, we're going to just give it a minute while folks join. Welcome. Nice to have you here. Good morning. Good afternoon. I think we'll have a good audience today. We've had a lot of interest in today's session. We're excited to welcome you all and want to hear from you. So, as you join, please see the chat function here in the top right-hand corner. We'd love to hear where you're dialing in from. We'd love to hear that kind of stuff. Say hello. Let us know where you're from and which organization, and we'll get started properly in just one minute.

Oh, Boston. Thank you, Kirsten. I'm in Boston too. Awesome. Atlanta, Sweden, Italy, Frankfurt. Wonderful. Thanks for joining us today.

I'd like to introduce myself while we get started. My name is John Lynch. I lead communications and content at TalentNeuron. So, I'm just kicking us off today.

Before we get started, I want to spend a couple of minutes on our agenda and talk a bit about your experience. The session will run for about 45 minutes today. We'll be discussing strategic workforce planning. And as you can imagine, this is a whale of a topic. I think we'll have a lot of interaction, so we have a really packed agenda.

We'll spend about 30 to 35 minutes on the main content, and then we're going to have a Q&A at the end. Please drop questions into the chat or drop them into the Q&A section on the right-hand side of your screen, and we'll do our best to get to those as we go.

Today's topic is the first of two sessions in September in TalentNeuron's Strategic Workforce Planning Master Class. So, this is the first. There will be another, and I think you would have signed up for both, but, you know, if you skip on to the next slide... I'm not driving my own slides right now, so it might just take a minute to show.

After today, we have another webinar, which is basically going to be on the 26th of September. We're going to be joined by some friends from Roche. Sarah and Lisa from Roche will be joining us to talk about their efforts to build a people analytics function within Roche.

That session will be eligible for HRCI certification credits, so make sure your team knows all about it. If you are registered, make sure you join. Please share the link — we'll drop it into the chat here so you have it — and we can make sure you're going to see some great input from our customers over there at Roche.

Is there any joy in skipping the slides? I'm afraid I'm still seeing the first one. And while we fix that, maybe this is the time I can introduce Dave and Ellen, our speakers.

Oh, there we go. Alright. Awesome. There we go. This is the information here on the Roche webinar.

And if we move on to the third slide, then we can talk a little bit about our speakers today. They will be presenting on our Strategic Workforce Planning framework and talking a little bit more about some of the content that we'll be expanding on in the next few sessions.

Dave, I'll hand it on to you. Thank you for joining us.

[0:04:34] David Wilkins: Great. Thanks for teeing us up there, John. I know it's always a challenge when the slides don't advance properly. So, my name is Dave Wilkins. I'm a Chief Product and Strategy Officer here at TalentNeuron, and happy to be chatting with you all about this topic today. It is a very hot topic, as I'm sure you're all aware — top of mind for a lot of folks. And I'm thrilled to be joined by Ellen. Ellen, if you could introduce yourself, that'd be great.

[0:04:58] Elin Thomasian: Absolutely. Thanks for having me today. Ellen Thomasian, I lead our workforce strategy and consulting team, and I'm excited to partner with you on this hot topic.

[0:05:11] David Wilkins: Awesome. Well, let's get rolling. Go ahead into the next slide if you can. That'd be great. So, we wanted to kick the session off with just a little bit of why this is such a big topic today. We won't spend a lot of time here because I think for many of us, it's reasonably self-evident. But I thought I'd flash a few headlines of some of the things that, you know, are sort of top of mind.

So, little things like global pandemics as a potential frame have been things we've been facing in the last few years. Global conflict, supply chain disruption, overall shifts in — I don't know — countries leaving European Unions, global political disruption. And then looming over all of this are big endemic changes like boomer retirements and the shifts that come in your overall workforce as a result of demographic shifts. And then things that seemingly come out of the blue and yet maybe are also things we've been talking about for years — advances in AI and machine learning and the disruption that technology can cause in the way that we rethink our businesses or approach our long-term strategic planning.

So suffice to say, there's been a lot going on, I think, in our collective worlds — maybe more than we're used to. It's prompted many organizations to start thinking heavily about how they become more agile, how they become more responsive to these changes, and really begin to have an ongoing model where they can begin to plan and have an ongoing ready response to the nature of this change.

When we surveyed just recently, we found that quite a few organizations are actively engaged in this activity. So, Alan, could you go to the next one for me? Something like 67% of organizations are engaged in some process where they've rated this as very important or an extremely important topic.

We went one level deeper when you further investigated the stage that organizations are at in tackling this problem. So, if you could go one more for me, Alan, we broke it down into which things are actively engaged and which are being discussed. And so when you break it down that way, when we surveyed CHROs, strategic workforce planning folks, who are industry leaders, what we found is that 44.6% of those folks either had active initiatives underway or regarded improving strategic workforce planning approach as a critical business priority. Another 37.1% are aware of their gaps and recognize the need for improvement.

So this is either something that's in flight with a lot of organizations, or it's something that folks are beginning to realize needs to become part and parcel of their operating model and an area where they need to invest to be more responsive in reaction to some of what we've seen over the last few years.

The other thing that we looked at in our own data was how things are changing in the HR function itself. So one of the things our tool does — which is pretty useful to our client base — is we can look at the way in which skills are changing within particular job functions. We can look at how that evolves over job families, and we can look at that change over time.

And so we thought we'd use that insight that we have to look at the HR function itself and see what shifts have been occurring across the HR function and what kind of areas, from a skill perspective, are seeing additional investment or decline over the last — call it — six years or so.

What's interesting is what we see borne out in the interest areas and the focus areas for businesses are also borne out in the evolution of HR investment and HR growth, where we see growth in L&D functions, growth in workforce planning, strong growth in talent management, HR business partners, people analytics, and then total rewards — often linked back to that equity challenge that we're all trying to deal with.

And so I think as you look at this, it is both interesting from the standpoint of the degree to which this is a reaction to the need to do more with data and to do more with strategic workforce planning and integrated talent management mindsets and better partnership with the business in the form of HR business partners. But I think it also is partly a reflection of the kind of growth we've seen over the last few years in people analytics technology and people analytics skill sets.

So think of tools like Vizier or Crunchr HR or tools of that nature that have given, I think, increased prominence to the notion of people analytics and the ability to discern from that potential pathways forward.

In turn, I think we as HR professionals and folks in this space are gradually building up new skill sets that are more analytical in nature, more data-driven, and more predictive, which then gives us the kind of acumen and skill sets that foster an ability to chase workforce planning in a more meaningful way.

We have better data than we've ever had. We have better skill sets than we've ever had. Advances in AI further augment our capabilities. And, for the first time, I think you're starting to see the emergence of truly integrated workforce planning teams that are thinking about this stuff holistically.

And if we think about it, please go ahead, Elin.

[0:10:56] Elin Thomasian: It's also interesting. I mean, workforce planning as a function is growing within the HR operating model. That's something to note because it probably works very closely with the people analytics department in managing that function on its own, but it's obviously not an isolated function. It has to work across all of the business and all of HR. So it's just really interesting to see that growing as a function within HR. I'd love to hear from the audience — how many of you have built workforce planning as a part of your operating model within HR? I think it's really interesting to see how that has flourished over the last four or five years.

[0:11:39] David Wilkins: I think it's a step back to that notion of building capability to support these new directions. And if we go to the next slide, what we see is that capability isn't just writ large, but it's down to the individual skill level. We also looked at specific skills that might be more linked to an increase in business acumen or data-driven decision-making. And again, over that same 6-year window, you see a 139% increase in demand for data-driven skill requirements — like a market trend as a skill, critical thinking, analytical thinking, market research — all of these things that trend and tend toward a direction of analysis, predictive modeling, and deeper understanding in ways that support and ultimately underpin strategic workforce planning.

[0:12:33] Elin Thomasian: Absolutely.

[0:12:34] David Wilkins: And so, to Elin's point, I'd love for you to take advantage of the chat. We'd love to hear back from you. Is this something you're experiencing? Are these the kinds of changes you're seeing in your business?

The other thing we did in the survey that I thought was interesting is we surveyed for things people thought were high-priority initiatives. I wanted to get your take on what's most high-priority for you, and then we'll share a little about the survey results. We can see how well your experience aligns.

I think it's fascinating when we look at the mix because strategic workforce planning isn't just one thing. I mean, it is in a conceptual frame, but it consists of multiple interconnected secondary analyses and planning activities: location planning, demand or talent capability planning, and skill strategy from a build versus buy versus borrow versus bot perspective. Put all the B's in there.

There are things like labor market intelligence, understanding your team, really understanding your competitive landscape, and where things fit. So it's interesting to think about what's at the top of your mind because, depending on the market segment or industry, some of these might take on different levels of importance based on individual circumstances.

But these topics keep recurring as we talk to our client base — which includes around 700 of the largest brands in the world across the Fortune 2000.

[0:14:23] Elin Thomasian: And, of course, what's near and dear to my heart driving the pull-up is the talent landscape, demand planning, which looks at the talent landscape in terms of needs and capabilities, and then skills analysis. So this is music to my ears.

[0:14:23] David Wilkins: Let's talk about the actual survey results because I think it's fascinating. I mean, I guess I wouldn't have expected to see anything too different from this audience versus the typical audience that we polled, but it is pretty interesting.

So, the way to read this chart is to plot it on a 1 to 5 importance scale. The vertical axis is importance. We plotted companies' overall sense of maturity on a 1 to 5 scale. But on the bottom axis, we inverted it because we think the most interesting quadrant is where there's less maturity but high importance. That suggests where we have opportunities to build our capabilities and think through where we need to invest.

Anything important we should pay attention to. But we have a decent level of maturity on some things — labor market intelligence, for example. We're sort of doing okay with current and future talent landscape analysis. But on a 5-point scale, there's still a little room for us to improve.

The two things that immediately jump out are demand planning and a better understanding of your capability requirements to meet future business needs. What talent am I going to need to fulfill the overall business strategy? We generally find folks who have a weaker skill set or capability in cataloging, defining, and creating.

The other one we constantly talk about is skill analysis — understanding the relationship between the current state of skills in the business and where people are trying to go. This includes understanding the market, competitors, and how we're stacking up against them relative to our skill composition. Are we keeping up with others? Is the grass greener in someone else's yard?

That kind of analysis is something we frequently engage in. We look at existing skill sets in the business, compare them to the market, understand the delta, and then potentially make recommendations around location planning and strategy — where to find that talent or where in the talent landscape it might exist.

I wonder if you have any thoughts, Ellen, as you look at this. Is there anything that jumps out at you in terms of the difference between maturity and importance?

[0:16:45] Elin Thomasian: What sticks out is the scenario modeling. That is the quantitative and qualitative function that really makes sense of the interconnected data and what the data tells you, drawing out the insights.

So I think this is where the emphasis comes on people analytics and the workforce function — to come together or work in their capacities to look around the corner, to look holistically at the different options we have in our new, advanced, fast-paced world. It's not just about building and buying anymore; there are many more options in the world of automation, such as breaking roles apart and deconstructing jobs by skills or tasks.

That modeling is difficult, and I empathize with a lot of companies out there who are trying to get it right through both quantitative and qualitative insights. I think it's a work in progress and a practice that many companies are engaging in, asking all the right questions. So I think it's only right to see it in that box on the chart.

[0:17:58] David Wilkins: Yeah. Agreed. Yeah. I also think this is one where, if maturity was a little higher and people knew the potential of this one, the importance might rise a bit. But I think it's so challenging, and the tech is not all the way there for some of this, where I think we'll see that rise in prominence in the coming years because of that.

[0:18:18] Elin Thomasian: Absolutely.

[0:18:19] David Wilkins: Let's go forward. In the interest of time, there's still a bit more we want to cover. We thought we'd frame up a bit of how we think about a modern strategic workforce planning framework. And if you could go forward, Alan, this is effectively a distillation and a simplified version of the kind of conversations we've been having across all of those clients I mentioned — really big brands in retail, supply chain management, tech, pharma, software, and a variety of different industries, including manufacturing.

And what's interesting is when you distill down everybody's process, there's a lot of commonality, no matter the industry or vertical. Generally speaking, as we interrogate clients about the process, there's almost always some sort of trigger that kicks off a dedicated strategic workforce planning initiative. I'm separating that notion from the continuous, always-on approach. We should always be doing this at some level, but often, something happens — some external factor, a competitor does something unexpected, or there's a market disruption. Call it COVID-19 as an example. Or blockchain issues. Maybe someone invents Gen AI and everyone goes, "Oh my goodness, we have to completely change everything." Little things.

Then there's internal stuff like, "Hey, we're not doing as well against competitors as we used to," or a certain region isn't performing in the way it has historically. Maybe your business has reached a technological breakthrough, and now you have new opportunities.

So something happens. Then what happens? Well, you take a look at whatever that trigger point is. You investigate your internal datasets. What do my financials show? What does my client churn rate show? What does my client acquisition rate show? What's going on inside my business that is of note and interest? Then, you look externally. What are my competitors doing? What are they investing in? Where are they putting their energy? Are they expanding into new regions? Are they launching new initiatives?

Once you have a comprehensive view of your internal and external realities, that usually provides enough data to fuel conversations about new business direction, strategy, and where the company should invest, triggering what we commonly refer to as demand planning. I'm going to suggest we start using different languages there humbly — it's really about identifying your new required talent capabilities.

To achieve that business direction and future state, what capabilities will we need in terms of the talent we have? Where are they? Who are they? What skills do they have? When do we need them? Do we need them internally? Can we borrow them? Can we automate them? How are we going to access those capabilities in a meaningful way?

The next logical step for businesses is to look at who they already have. Who's on the bench? Who has those skills? Where are those skills? Are they about to retire? Are they early in their careers? What's the composition of those skills from a DEI perspective? That internal analysis helps you understand where the talent is, how it's distributed, how deep it runs, and whether you have what you need.

Inevitably, the answer is no. Then, you need to engage in gap analysis: where the gaps exist, in which parts of the world, in which functions, and in which skills. That leads to the question: Can we get them externally if we don't have them internally? Do they exist in the marketplace? If so, where? Which competitors have them? At what level of demand?

Where can we find talent at the right wage and salary levels to make it attractive for us to acquire? Other factors come into play, too, such as labor market intelligence. Are governmental incentives or market characteristics that make one location more attractive? That all feeds into the same gap analysis — who we can get externally, who we have internally. That fuels things like scenario planning.

Are we going to build this capability? Are we going to buy it? Are we going to borrow it? To Alan's point, are we going to break existing roles into their constituent parts? Or maybe rethink our org structure and design it to align more with where we're going than where we are now.

That leads to solution design — various ways to implement the new approach. Of course, all of this has to go through some feasibility process because some ideas may not be easy to execute, require different investment levels, or carry more risk. That makes this an iterative part of the process — contemplating different ways to solve the challenge.

Elin, have you wanted to jump in on any of this so far before I get to the final bits?

[0:23:36] Elin Thomasian: No, because I am going to go into full detail on my own. Alright.

[0:23:39] David Wilkins: Fair enough.

[0:23:40] Elin Thomasian: I like your overview.

[0:23:42] David Wilkins: Alright. Thank you. So then, you come to a set of solutions and decide, okay, this is how we will do our L&D strategy relative to build. It's going to be a courseware-based approach with a curriculum. Maybe there's some private partnership you're going to do with local universities to build public-private partnerships for curriculum or degree build-out. Maybe there's something you're going to do with an internal mentoring or job rotation program. That's what I mean by solution design.

It's one thing to say we're going to build it, but then how are you going to build it? It's one thing to say you're going to buy it, but is that through passive candidate pools, or are you going to go full throttle with a new EVP and a change to your overall benefits and compensation structure to attract higher-quality talent? That's the design.

Those things get implemented via your HRIS, talent management solutions, etc., and become the actual fulfillment mechanisms. Lastly, you have to monitor and adjust and make sure that whatever plans you put in place are starting to move the needle in a way that makes sense — back against your original business challenge and the required capability build-out, the plan you've put together to ensure you're hitting all the notes needed to achieve your objectives.

So that's the big picture. Go ahead, Elin.

[0:24:55] Elin Thomasian: No. And what I love about what you're drawing out here is that the data collection and the strategy come first before you pick the tools and the execution. I think what some organizations do is they pick the tools and then work backward to fit their data and modeling into the tools. So I think that's best practice — thinking about the strategy and what data needs to go into the strategy. Are we ensuring we're inclusive and looking at a 360 view of the data collection? Have we captured all of the different scenarios to optimize the solution design? Then, we move on to the following: What is the people portion of the execution versus the tech solution? I love how you laid it out for us here in that order.

[0:25:49] David Wilkins: Thanks. Yes. So there's a bunch of questions in the chat about how finance fits into this, how legal does. Are we looking at the economic landscape and the way that all fits together? And the good news is my portion is now complete, and Elin gets into those details.

I guess what I would just say generally is I think when you have this larger frame, what you'll see as Elin goes through some of the ways that you execute and begin to turn this into something real and meaningful is, depending on the nature of the challenge you're solving, you don't necessarily need to do every single aspect of this for every single workforce planning initiative. There are different ways to dip in and out of different datasets and process flows, and Elin will take you through some of that.

So, over to you, Elin.

[0:26:34] Elin Thomasian: Absolutely. Thank you. So, let's think about the role of data and where we at TalentNeuron can help support strategic workforce planning and show you what we think are the different methods to use. We want to start — before we dive into that process — by telling you what some of our clients are thinking about.

And just like Dave said, dipping in and out of strategic workforce planning, touching parts of it — this is the buzz we're hearing. Different parts of strategic workforce planning show up when folks come to us with challenges. Often, they don’t even realize these tie back to broader strategic workforce plans. They just want to solve a specific point challenge, and we’re happy to help them.

What’s beautiful is when you put all these parts together in that “north star” of a robust workflow and a continuous process. If we think through some of the things you might be doing at your company — skills evolution, for example — are you starting to think about trends in declining, core, growing, emerging, and new skills? How is that affecting your capabilities?

Then there’s location analysis. What is location analysis telling us about our needs in our constantly changing world of remote work and return-to-office trends?

Next: skills mapping and gap analysis. When you reflect on the modern workforce as an organization, where do you see gaps with your people? How do you compare to competitors — whether they're direct, talent, or location competitors? We help a lot of clients with that.

Another big topic is digitalization, automation, and AI impact. How is AI likely to change a role or your job architecture? We help clients determine the impact this is going to have on their future of work, job architecture, and capabilities.

Then, of course, there’s the value of skills. With more transparency in compensation around the globe, how are you evaluating the cost of critical and specialized skills across markets? Where can you take advantage of rich skills at a lower cost?

And then there’s job architecture — the capstone. It’s the backbone of where your skills lie, where they’re dynamic, and how you learn from them to conduct gap analysis through that lens.

These are all parts of strategic workforce planning. Some people don’t realize they’re engaging with the bigger picture, but they are — and that’s okay. We love advising clients on these and helping them connect the dots.

Without looking at the data, you can’t do even those point solutions — or the whole process. Data is the most important piece. One of the biggest skills HR is picking up now is becoming more data-driven.

So, we want to show you the kinds of data needed and how it’s categorized. You’re going to need operational and financial data. You get that from your CFO, COO teams, and business strategy group. You look at those numbers and reflect on them against your talent data.

What are your talent risks? What are your skills? What does your leadership pipeline look like? What about your succession plan?

And then location factors. In the ever-changing future of work, we help you navigate questions like where you should have real estate, where you should go remote, or where to allow hybrid arrangements.

Org design, AI, and capabilities all fall under transformation — and every company is going through some form of it. We help you break down transformation into parts, give you data for better decisions, and guide you through transformation via these pillars.

So, data collection is critical. We're here to help you navigate the data and its insights before diving into strategy modeling.

If we think about strategy modeling — it’s the nucleus. But the nucleus doesn’t work without data collection and execution feasibility. How do you make this a dynamic loop that keeps your organization ahead of change?

Here’s our deeper look at TalentNeuron’s strategic workforce planning approach. It always starts with strategic business planning and understanding what precipitates that — what’s happening in the world, what’s happening in markets. That leads to internal discovery and competitive intelligence. The business then makes decisions — whether to pivot, change, or transform — and that leads to a new business plan and new capability needs.

That leads directly to talent capabilities modeling. You learn what you’re missing as you collect your data.

Once you know what you're looking for, you analyze internal talent. That includes headcount, skills, leadership, succession plans, and talent risk. Then, you analyze the external market.

You can't just look at your internal data. You need to compare externally and understand: Where are we missing skills? Where can roles be transformed? Where can we take advantage of talent costs or availability? Where does traditional "build or buy" not work anymore? What should be automated or eliminated? What will be different in five years?

After your gap analysis, you're ready for strategic modeling. You look at different scenarios, cost calculations (with your CFO), location analysis (with partners like us), and then dive into the build, borrow, buy, bounce, break, and bought model.

You then create solutions — requiring change management, stakeholder influence, and multi-year plans. Nothing happens overnight, especially in large organizations with many moving parts.

That's why strategic workforce planning includes HR, people analytics, workforce planning, CFO teams, business leaders, strategy, and transformation offices — aligning on a multi-year strategic plan.

Tech platforms help you execute. They might be part of your HRIS, your HR strategy, or the bridge between your CFO suite and talent data. This is all part of your solutions modeling, and you do this with all stakeholders agreeing on a forward-moving plan.

As a continuous process, you monitor, adjust, and stay ahead of the triggers we've discussed. You review quarterly and annually and use partners like us to stay informed on market shifts and risk factors.

But remember, you don't always need to follow the full plan. Maybe you're just focused on talent. As a Chief Talent Officer, your concern may be new business directions and critical talent. You'll focus on headcount, skills, external market comparison, and cost modeling. Then move straight into the build, buy, borrow, break, bounce process.

So you don't have to use every step. Use the parts that make sense for your organization.

To dive into talent data, start with business strategy, employee skill inference, and gap analysis. Then go into your build, buy, borrow, bought, break, bounce model.

Draw insights: What does each business scenario require? What global skills should you monitor? How quickly can you upskill before needing role transformation? What are your talent competitors doing? Where are they succeeding or struggling?

We talk to clients about this every day. We help with skills evolution, so you know which skills aren't evolving and which roles need reconstruction.

Talent data is just one big piece of strategic workforce planning. Another is location analysis.

Location strategy is incredibly important. It ties to your EVP, culture, and talent attraction. We've all seen companies force returns to the office and struggle to attract top talent, but others thrive in the office due to innovation demands.

We help you think this through from thought leadership and capability perspectives. If you're focused on location strategy, start with your operating model. Where should your skills lie — in-office or remote?

Then, look at the external talent market. Where are certain skills concentrated? Where do other companies locate them? What are the best markets? What universities support them?

Then, do strategy modeling: overlay talent, cost, and operating models against location analysis. Break down roles. Decide which should be built, bought, split, or moved to new locations.

Have you run in-depth location comparisons? What's optimal for you? How do you define that? We help you ask the right questions.

Niche skills — should you develop them or buy them? Where are they? Which schools offer them?

Location is a critical part of the strategic workforce plan. When you overlay market and skills maturity with location factors, you're cooking with gas.

Then look at the pyramid: What's your business strategy? How do you optimize locations internally and against the labor market? How do you run those scenarios — with TalentNeuron — to help execute and monitor change?

Last year's plan might not work next year. The market is changing fast, especially with remote work redefining where skills lie globally.

We wanted to share these examples, dive into the process, and remind you that we're here to make sense of interconnected data for strategic workforce planning.

We do that through three dimensions:

1. Market and labor data intelligence

2. Tying data to strategic talent perspectives

3. Overlaying it all with skills and insights

That's what drives strategic workforce planning. This is a microcosm of what the process looks like. Dave and his team help build this into our platform's capabilities, and we, in strategic consulting at TalentNeuron, help draw insights from the data and show the interconnectedness of it all.

[0:42:27] David Wilkins: Yeah. I think for me, as I think about this, the interesting challenge about doing this well is, to Alan's point, the interconnectedness of it. Just to give you some examples of the kinds of conversations we're having with folks across all verticals — it doesn't matter. In the last three weeks, Alan and I have probably had somewhere between five to six conversations with folks trying to understand what's going on in the evolution of AI skills or new and emerging skills in their vertical or subsector, how they're doing against competitors, and what their current state looks like compared to where the market is perceived to be going.

Based on that analysis of the gap, where should they think about investing? Should they build? Should they buy it? If they are going to buy it, where should they buy it? And if you start looking at this bubble map, the intersection of the Venn is all of the above. Once you understand where you are in the market, the competitive landscape, the emerging and declining skills, and what things are on the path to automation, that leads you to strategic workforce planning conversations — whether to buy or build, where to get that talent from — which then leads you to specific processes where you begin to execute and have a talent perspective on what you should do to achieve that business objective.

I think we're moving rapidly to a place where it isn't enough to just have the data. It isn't enough to just have the planning and operations. More than ever, you need to think about these things in very integrated, connected ways — how your market data and competitive understanding influence your strategy, the way your strategy influences execution, and the beginning of your actual technology use. As Alan said, don't buy tech until you know what you're doing with it.

And I think this whole notion of integrated talent management is going to be sort of...

[0:44:33] Elin Thomasian: Under the standard. Steroid.

[0:44:34] David Wilkins: Yes. It's through this increased focus on strategic workforce planning because you can't do this well unless all the stuff is integrated, and it's essential.

[0:44:45] Elin Thomasian: And we see that in HR operating models. The more integrated the teams are in working together on this, the better the outcomes they see. Obviously, you can't do this in isolated siloed teams. This evolution of doing it in all parts, with the North Star of the entire process being done holistically, requires a very agile, interconnected, integrated HR operating model that works through all its functions to execute, plan, model, and continuously monitor the process. That's also a big factor.

[0:45:26] David Wilkins: Awesome. Yeah. I think that's it for our formal presentation, John. So, I think maybe if we can take some questions, we can hang around for a bit and tackle whatever crazy stuff the audience is throwing our way.

[0:45:38] Elin Thomasian: Yes. Of course. Hopefully, not too crazy.

[0:45:40] John Lynch: We had a bunch of really good interactions, questions, and comments. I think one or two people raised a question about some of the data we shared about the decline in the talent acquisition function over the last several years and what that means. So, if any of you have any context on that, that would be useful, and I can talk a little bit about the research if that's helpful, too.

[0:46:03] Elin Thomasian: As a former Head of Global Talent Acquisition, I can certainly answer that. That is a percent change. I think talent acquisition is still one of the largest teams within HR, and it's always going to be a table stakes for any HR operating model. Talent acquisition is becoming important and integral in strategic workforce planning because it is connected to the business and all parts of HR. They provide the data that fuels a lot of this data collection on what's happening in the market from their search and sourcing.

While the teams might not be growing because of what's happened in the economic climate over the last couple of years — with mass layoffs and conservative financial measures given the economic forecast — I think TA is integral in the skills journey. They're acquiring and sourcing talent, often managing the internal talent marketplace and informing hiring managers about external markets.

They are our biggest users of TalentNeuron platform data because they use it to become talent advisors to their hiring managers and people leaders, informing them on what's happening with compensation, location factors, and why they should consider modeling roles differently to attract better talent. They speak to candidates daily, emphasizing the employee value proposition that ties everything together — what the company stands for, the value of working there, and sometimes even location strategy.

Talent acquisition is at the forefront of all those things. So, while the numbers show it's not currently in growth mode, the importance and value that talent acquisition brings to the organization — and obviously to strategic workforce planning — is invaluable. But I'm also biased.

[0:48:05] David Wilkins: I'd add maybe just a little tiny bit of additional color to that — I think it's worth noting. If we think about the overall shape of innovation in the HRTM space, the greatest innovation has come in the TA world. Things have become more efficient. We're doing more via automation. We're doing more with less. Some of the greatest AI innovations are happening there. Some of what Beamery is doing is super interesting; for example, it streamlines processes and allows a TA professional to handle more load while still being more effective.

I think that might be factoring into that answer as well. In some cases, some of these folks are evolving. I talked to some of our clients who are officially in the TA function, and they're now being asked questions like, "What am I going to need in two years?" or "What does my three-year model look like?" And I'm like, yeah, you're not in TA anymore. You're drifting towards strategic workforce planning.

So I also think there's been some slight evolution in that area.

[0:49:14] Elin Thomasian: Absolutely. I think the first team within HR that feels the pressure of needing a good, proactive, robust strategic workforce plan is the TA folks. And yeah, who the TA folks inevitably go to first in that conversation is their HR business partners and their people analytics partners because they help bring to light the importance of bubbling up what's happening in the business and then applying it to longer-term leadership conversations. So, I agree with you; they're the first to use AI.

I wholeheartedly agree with that. AI-driven CRM tools like Beamery, which you mentioned, and AI-driven talent marketplaces TA are the first ones to use it. The data from that behavior and that tool fuels some of the data collection needed for strategic workforce planning. Absolutely. So we lean into that.

[0:50:10] David Wilkins: I'd say one other quick thing, and then we should probably move to a different question. Probably the most surprising part of that diagram for me was the growth in L&D. I frankly expect that to continue to increase as we all get a lot more serious about true build-versus-buy discussions. I personally believe we under-resource internal L&D and internal build and mobility strategies as a key strategy. We tend to default too much to the buy motion. So, I think progressive organizations will start doubling down there because the pace of change is so great that it gets difficult to buy everything. And we have to be more thoughtful about where it makes more sense to build.

[0:50:55] Elin Thomasian: I agree. When you deconstruct roles into tasks and skills and realize that there are certain critical tasks and roles, you can easily train people on tasks versus an entire role, and that's where L&D can be helpful. When you're breaking a role down and looking at its simplified tasks and skills, those are bite-sized pieces you could teach to many more people at the company than, for example, upskilling them to become an actuary. That seems very daunting. But if you upskill them on a specific task or cluster of skills, that becomes a lot more profitable to do through a strategic approach. So yeah, I agree.

[0:51:35] John Lynch: There was one great comment here that Anne-Marie just dropped in. Thank you, Anne Marie. While we were talking about that particular dataset, our process maturity on SWP is very low. We're struggling to even conceptualize the data we need to look at. The too-rooted short-term operational headcount management just can't raise our heads and have the strategic conversation.

I think that immediately resonated with a lot of people. The great thing about our next webinar on the 26th is we're going to be sitting down with Roche and talking about how they built that function and how they have made it work within a 100,000-person organization. So, we'll make sure, yes.

[0:52:15] David Wilkins: And I'd say, John, I think the Roche story is similar to other stories we've heard from clients who've crossed the chasm to maturity and success. My only advice to anyone struggling with that is: don't boil the ocean. Pick something meaningful and manageable in scope, where you can approach it with either data you already have or through a partnership with someone like us to obtain data.

By the way, you don't have to buy our entire platform. You can engage us for strategic consulting or even a single research report. A lot of people purchase the full platform and our full suite of offerings, but you can also work with us by module or through individual strategic consulting engagements.

Partnering with someone like us can provide valuable proof that shows, "Hey, if we approached this more successfully, thoughtfully, and strategically, we could make better decisions." Often, organizations only realize this after making a costly mistake — like situating a new manufacturing plant in an area they can't staff or launching a new offshore software center and being unable to find the right talent.

If they had gone beyond just thinking about the real estate and actually done strategic workforce planning — looked at the demographics, talent pool, and skill sets — a different decision would likely have been made.

Starting with a specific, manageable, and meaningful project that can become a demonstrable use case is often where people see the greatest success in getting started. We can support that in any number of ways — from technology to strategic consulting to a standalone report that helps you bring data and insights to the table on something that matters.

[0:54:03] Elin Thomasian: And speaking of technology, I just saw a comment about how tracking skills are often challenging. Well, we can help with persona, too. We have expertise in the HR tech landscape — especially as we specialize in skills. We can help you navigate which skills tools are best for you, whether it's thinking about how to leverage the skills capabilities of your HRIS, how to build a better talent marketplace using skills, or how to choose the best CRM that has skills embedded to fuel your thoughts about recruiting and evaluating internal talent compared to external talent. We're definitely here to help navigate that for you as well.

[0:54:55] John Lynch: Amazing. I think I'm blown away by the quality of the interaction we're getting here in the chat. It's wonderful that everyone is bringing forward their perspective and their experience. I would love to carry on, but I think we're 10 minutes past our Utah time. So, I wanted to thank everyone — first of all, our attendees — for making the time and contributing so well to this session. If we don't get to your question during the session, we will follow up with you so you get an answer. Otherwise, we look forward to seeing you on the 26th. We'll share that link again. Dave and Elin, thank you so much for sharing your point of view and for your time today.

[0:55:37] Elin Thomasian: Yes. Thank you. Pleasure. The audience is a delight.

[0:55:40] David Wilkins: And I'll just say, the Roche session is going to be outstanding. We've been prepping with them for about a month and a half, and their story is great. I think if you're interested at all in this topic, hearing from an organization that's doing it well — and how they went from where many of you may be, just starting the journey, to a place of maturity — I think there are a lot of great lessons in what we're going to talk about next. So try to make that one if you can as well if you're interested in this topic.

[0:56:09] John Lynch: Amazing. Thank you so much. To our audience, if you have a moment, we have a survey at the end of this presentation. We would love your feedback. Thank you again, and we appreciate your time. See you soon.

[0:56:20] Elin Thomasian: Bye, everyone. See you at the next webinar.

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Part 2

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‍[0:00:36] John Lynch: Good morning, everybody. Well, good afternoon, good morning, wherever you are. We'll take a minute to let people join. As you log in, it'd be great to hear where you're dialing in from. I'm a geography nerd, so I like to hear this. Just drop something into the chat there.

Hello. Who do we have?

Hey, Angus from the UK.

Alex. Hi, Alex. Nice to see you.

Bernadette Andreas is from Sweden. Kelly from Baltimore.

Hey, everybody. Thank you for joining. From Boston, Toronto, and Tampa.

Alright. So, while we wait for folks to join, thank you. Here is an introduction: My name is John Lynch. I lead communications and content at TalentNeuron. I'm going to be kicking us off today and giving you an overview of the agenda and your webinar experience.

Today's session is going to run for about 45 minutes to an hour, and I think it's probably going to be closer to an hour. So, thank you for taking an hour out of your day to be here.

We're going to be joined by our friends Lisa and Sarah from the People Insights team at Roche. We're going to be hearing a lot about their experience of turning that part of the HR function into a strategic player within a major enterprise organization.  

So, as you can imagine, there is a lot to get into. It's a packed agenda. I imagine we will talk about this for about 35–40 minutes, and then we'll get to questions at the end.  

And so, you know, please ask questions at the end, but also, as we get through this, drop questions into the chat and the Q&A function. We want to hear from you as we go.

Today is the second session of our Strategic Workforce Planning Master Class. If you haven't had a chance to join the last session on SWP with Dave and Ellen, we'll also share the link to that session today.

Two other things to look out for: today's webinar is HRCI eligible, so you can get accreditation. The accreditation number will be up on the screen at the end.

We'll also ask you to complete a 2-minute survey on your webinar experience. It's just a good way to learn about what's working and what our audience is interested in. So thank you for doing that in advance.

Before introducing our speakers, I'll quickly introduce the webinar experience. This is the kind of webinar room that you can see in front of you. As I mentioned, during the webinar, you'll have a chance to submit questions and make comments using the Q&A function. Ask them as they arise; we'll get to them.

In the document section, you can download the PowerPoint presentation from today. If you find that the screen can be a little small for some detailed content. So, to optimize your viewing experience, just click on the expand screen button in the bottom right-hand corner.

And if at any time you'd like to learn more about TalentNeuron and how our solutions can support you, click on the "Request a Demo" link at the top of the screen, and we'll be happy to help.

Okay. I think we have a decent audience here. This is very exciting. So, Dave, I'm going to hand it over to you and move us on to the next slide. You can give an introduction for yourself and our guests.

[0:04:05] David Wilkins: Fantastic. Thank you, sir. Just a quick intro for me. My name is Dave Wilkins. I'm a Chief Product and Strategy Officer here at TalentNeuron. So, I will not be the star of the show today. That is actually going to be Sarah and Lisa, who are joining us from Roche and have just some amazing insights to share about how they built up their People Insights group there. So with that, Sarah, if I could ask you maybe to do a quick intro of yourself, that'd be great.

[0:04:33] Sarah Morley: Thanks, Dave. Yes. Happy to be here today. This is something that Lisa and I love to talk about. It's a passion, I think, for both of us. I'm a People Insights Lead here at Roche, and we have been building this people insights analytics function for the last four years or so. And Lisa was kind enough about three and a half years ago to say, "Hey, there's this thing that I'm doing, this talent competitive intelligence. Would you be interested?" And so I'm really excited to chat about our journey today and hear from others. And, Lisa?

[0:05:13] Lisa Rose: Hi, I'm Lisa Rose. Yeah, so very passionate about CI [Competitive Intelligence]. Before moving into people insights, I was in talent acquisition for about 20 years, so I had a real passion for it. I've been building that passion within others and moved to Switzerland with my family to build up this function for Roche. So clearly, I feel a lot of feelings about the importance of this for our business and the future of talent. Thanks for having us.

[0:05:49] David Wilkins: Thank you for being here. I am super excited about the session today. We're going to talk a lot about how you guys built this all up. But I wanted to kick off, maybe, with a quick run-through on the agenda, and then we'll talk through, I think, a really exciting intro here with a video that you guys produced.

So we're going to go through some of the evolution of Talent Intelligence and people insights at Roche and how that sort of went from a nascent, emerging thing to something that now is pretty strategic and is widely accessible and adopted throughout the organization. We'll talk about how they've scaled their labor market data internally into something that's driving real strategic decision-making, how they built out a really consultative model internally and are viewed as consultants within the business, and then start a conversation about where they're going next from the foundation that they built.

So that's the overall agenda and flow. But before we get into all that, I wanted to kick us off by playing a very short video clip of something that Sarah and Lisa put together. It's part of a larger video. The goal of this video was really to help educate their colleagues about what kind of services their team offered and how internal teams might want to use them while also giving a little bit of a day in the life of what it's like for them and their teams to work in this kind of field and to deliver value in what they do.

So, as you watch this video, I want you to imagine what it would be like for your team — whether it's people analytics or talent intelligence or maybe it's strategic workforce planning — to have enough internal credibility and respect inside your organization to put out the kind of fun, authentic video that you're about to see.

So with that, John, could you get us to that video? That would be lovely.

[A short comic sketch]

[0:07:44] Sarah Morley: This is Sarah, People Insights

[0:07:46] Lisa Rose: Hello, Susan, wonderful to meet you.

[0:07:49] Sarah Morley: Oh, Tiffany...

[0:07:51] Lisa Rose: It's Tiffany being in the house, and shh, you're already talking too much. Listen. I'm very important. I'm very important and have things to say, but don't talk. Listen. We're thinking about our location strategy in all of the very wonderful parts of the world, and I don't think we're tapping into the right talent. Frankly, I don't think talent is very talented, but that's between you and me. We need quality and regulatory. Do you understand? You should be writing these things down... Anyway, we need to know where they are, and I need you to make me a report. Okay?

***

[0:08:31] David Wilkins: So hilarious. I laugh every time I see it. And that's — I don't even know if those are the funniest bits. The whole thing is funny. But for those of you watching, I just want you to realize this is a very small clip of an amazing video. And in case you're wondering, it's gone viral inside Roche all the way up to their CHRO. Its success is now generating all kinds of new interest, leading to more inbound requests and just an overall extension and more adoption. And they're now playing an even larger role than they were doing before.

And really, ultimately, that's going to be the focus of today's discussion — how they've gone from basically a startup inside the organization with not as much reach to now really a viral sensation driving strategic decisions at the highest level.

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So, Sarah and Lisa, I think that's just such a great testament to where you are today — that you're putting out a video like that that's going viral inside the organization. But I have to believe it didn't start that way. So, I was wondering if maybe you could take us through some of the early days, like the evolution of your labor market data usage at Roche. And maybe what were some of the early use cases that you guys were focused on?

[0:09:53] Lisa Rose: Yes. So, thanks, Dave. And that video is super special. I'm just glad we didn't get fired. So, early on in 2016, this was really sponsored by talent acquisition. We didn't have any headcount. We had some budget. We immediately learned that not all partners and vendors for CI are built the same. There's no magic CI button I can press; it gives me what I need and is reliable and ethically sourced.

Secondly, we noticed that we had to have the right partners. As I said, we had to have global data. We wanted to say this was a very ethically sourced white hat — the data we needed at the right time. And then what I realized too was not everybody is as excited about CI as I am and knows what it means immediately. So there was a lot of sort of: how do we translate this, how do we make this sticky and exciting and interesting, how do we make it applicable? That was sort of the early days.

And I think a lot of what drove that was we couldn't post and pray anymore. That just wasn't a thing. We really had to be much more intentional. The business really expected us to be much more conscious of a recruiting strategy versus, "Oh, we're just going to go out and talk to people that we know," or "We're just going to put it up, and it'll be fine." So, it came from necessity.

What was a game changer for us — right around 2021 — was actually moving the whole function of CI into people insights, which really accelerated a lot of the work we could do. One, we got to leverage these super smart insights analysts. If anyone on the line is an insights analyst, you're amazing. We love you. They already were so data-savvy, but they were also used to combining internal data with other data. So it just sort of blew up our ability to provide insights.

Secondly, we were able to start using a ticketing system where we could really monitor demand. We could figure out who is asking for what, which allowed us to make a case for more resources, training, or whatever that needed to look like. So those were kind of game changers for us along the way that I think accelerated everything quite a bit, at least up until, like, 2021. And then it kind of went from there. I'll let Sarah talk about some of that as we move through.

[0:12:50] David Wilkins: So as you're thinking about that, Lisa, I mean, what I heard you say is it wasn't any one thing. It was sort of a combination of skill sets, of systems, of process, and, you know, sort of the availability of data and the ability to connect the dots in new ways. Were there any breakthrough moments where you guys solved a particularly interesting use case or a specific thing that emerged that either gave you new credibility in the business or made people sit up and say, "Oh, this is a thing? We should be doing more of this." Were there anything like that in the journey?

[0:13:32] Lisa Rose: Two things were happening for our business. Roche is a large pharmaceutical company with a diagnostics arm. We were focusing on personalized health care. What kind of data can we provide patients so they can be more responsible for their care? And so, digital transformation was one thing, and tech moving into health care was another. Those two things emerged, giving us a platform for competitive intelligence.

So, on one side, when we're talking about tech moving into health care, we had some very senior leaders asking, "Google just expanded in Zurich, and our headquarters is in Basel in Switzerland. What's going on there? Are they creating a new tech arm in Zurich? Is that going to sap our talent?" And we went in, and we took a look at some of the data and the hiring. And we read through the profiles and were like, "Not as far as we can tell. This is an expansion on something totally different."

The other side of that was, if we start hiring tech talent, where should we start? What are other pharmaceutical companies doing now? How do we get ahead of that? And that was the location analysis — looking at profiles they were hiring and had started hiring in the last six months. So those two catalysts gave us such a wonderful platform to serve up CI.

[0:15:05] David Wilkins: And was that one of the key moments where, because you were bringing the kind of data and a kind of insight that maybe otherwise couldn't be generated elsewhere in the business, you sort of earned a bit more credibility or awareness or trust, or, like, a recognition that this is like a new angle of attack on something?

[0:15:27] Lisa Rose: Yes. Because up to that point, CI was really considered a product thing, we were looking at our competitor's product versus what's happening with talent. What kinds of alerts or sensing can we do with the talent market that tells us more about our competitors? And it informs our strategy moving forward. We did a lot around therapeutic areas. So, looking at our competitors in Alzheimer's — how do we make sure we are doing the most impactful things for patients and using competitive intelligence to drive that?

[0:16:06] David Wilkins: Did I?

[0:16:07] Lisa Rose: Does that answer the question?

[0:16:08] David Wilkins: Yes. That's super cool. Go ahead, Sarah. Please.

[0:16:03] Sarah Morley: If I could chime in, Lisa and I think about it a lot, and when we think about our talent competitive intelligence program as part of this larger people insights and analytics function, one of the things we think is: every time you have a conversation, it's an opportunity to build that brand or to lose it.  

There have been these pivotal moments for us. Still, we go into it with the perspective that every time is an opportunity to help people understand what we can and can't do, what we should and shouldn't do, and have a deeper conversation instead of just being request takers and saying, "What's the supply and demand of this profile in this location?" It's more like, "What is the business problem? Tell me more."

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And for us, to take every opportunity to act as a consultant — is that how we keep that going? But I think it's also something where just because you have or build it doesn't mean you can't lose it. And so I think we both come in with that edge and continue to try to push that edge so that we can continue to move forward.

[0:17:21] David Wilkins: That makes a ton of sense — just one other related question. I know you guys are using us as the backbone for some of that data. Were you doing something different before you started using TalentNeuron? And if not, what led you to a tool like this to help with that sort of challenge?

[0:17:49] Lisa Rose: So, we tried — you know — we looked at other options. Many didn't offer the same global reach, which was okay for some markets like the US. But that was a limiting factor. One — we need to know where the data's coming from. So, data transparency was super important. We wanted a partner; we didn't just want an interface or a platform. And that's really what led us to TalentNeuron.

The other critical thing was that we would make comments, and then the changes would happen. And, frankly, that has happened way more in the last year than we've ever seen it, so that's been huge.

The other thing about that is — like I said before — not everybody was like, "Oh my gosh, competitive intelligence. I'm a recruiter — how do I put that into my daily work?" I anticipated I would provide them with a platform, and they'd all be like, "Wonderful! That was not my idea."

So we can talk a little bit more about how we engaged them. Much of that was teeing things up in a much more simplified way — creating a site where we put in our completed projects.

We assigned folks within the team regionally who were considered evangelists or enthusiasts, so there was a place someone could go to talk to. Because the vendors we were working with at that time didn't have that type of service model.

[0:19:42] David Wilkins: Yes, I got you. That makes total sense.

[0:19:46] Sarah Morley: I think one of the things that we value from the different vendors that we use — and that we continue to use in this space — is that it's not just about the product and the data. Of course, those are super important. However, our true partnership and consultative relationship is the other important thing for us.

We want a partner asking us, "Tell me about your business. What's going on for you? What are the things that are coming up?" — and is a sparring partner with us, as opposed to, "Here's the documentation on the latest release, and, by the way, it's the end of the year. It's time for you to re-sign your agreement." And those are the only checkpoints we get.

Because we've found that when you find those partners that you can have a really consultative relationship with, they make you better as an internal consultant for your organization. And we definitely have found that with TalentNeuron.

[0:20:41] David Wilkins: Thank you. That's great. We've been chatting a bit together here. I think it'd be good to hear maybe a little bit from the audience. So, we prepared a poll to understand better where everybody participating is with us.  

What challenges are you facing today as you're thinking about leveraging labor market data to help make more informed talent and business decisions?  

If you wouldn't mind just responding to that, I'm sure Lisa and Sarah will have some perspective on the extent to which they experience similar challenges — and maybe even be able to give you some tips on how to overcome some of them.  

[0:21:28] Sarah Morley: I see the lack of clarity on strategic value. This one is also huge in helping you deal with some of the budget constraints you might have and even some of your prioritization issues. But we continue as we've gone through this journey. You can start with those burning immediate need things that you can solve. But then, as you start to build out a bigger strategy around what else we can do with this and what other use cases we can use.

We have used this in scenarios, and I think one of our partners at Roche is on the call today. So, thanks for joining. But our mergers and acquisition space already had a robust program focused on analyzing the products and the financial piece. As we're looking at a merger or acquisition, is there one we're interested in? And what we were missing was the talent piece.

Well, what about the talent? What are we getting ourselves into? And there were lots of times we would find assumptions with our business partnering teams like, "Oh, we think that this company has unicorns." And we've all experienced that these people are unicorns. They're all super special, and everyone is super special.

But then other things like we would start to get into discussions during due diligence and realize that they have a ton of turnover. Maybe there's something else going on there that we need to dig into, ask more questions about, and find out. Even things like cultural fit, tenure, education, and D&I [diversity and inclusion]. How is this organization, besides the financial and product pieces — how do these people fit into our organization? What do we need to be thinking about from a people and culture perspective as we think about integration?

What else should we be asking? What else should we be thinking about so that we don't have a failure in these huge investments we're making in that M&A [merger and acquisition] space? We don't have a failure because there was a people problem we didn't know about.

So, that's one of the more novel ways that we have been using competitive intelligence in the mergers and acquisition space. But I think in the broader sense, there aren't a lot of business decisions that happen that don't have some sort of people or talent component. And I think it's just helping the organization with that continual education so they can understand: "Oh, you want to create a new product line that you've never thought of before? What does that mean for talent? Do we have those skills in-house? Where are those skills? What have other people done to ramp up that type of product?"

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So when I think about some of the other use cases that we maybe haven't even explored — really, anytime you think about asking, "What is the talent impact of this? What are the talent considerations?" — there’s not much from the business perspective where I would say, “Nothing.” There are some talent aspects that we can consider.

[0:24:31] David Wilkins: Yes, I love that.  

[0:24:32] Lisa Rose: I'd like to touch on the awareness and understanding among stakeholders. We are not in the business, and in fact, we pride ourselves on saying no in the most finessed way possible. We're not in the business of just curiosity. We don't go in and they're like, "I think that Amgen's taking all of our people," or, "Tell us about this," or, "Give me some data that reinforces a decision I already made."

It's a lot about, like, "Okay, well, that's not a problem. We're not seeing that Amgen's taking all our people. But here's what is a problem, and this is why we might want to talk about it." Let's look at retention strategies — because we're seeing a predictive model and these things happening in your organization — that you're losing high performers. And we're less concerned about Amgen.  

So it's about that. It's about providing an insight that has a recommendation and an action. And somebody I saw wrote a question about the multiple data sources that we use. That is why moving from TA [talent acquisition] to insights — people insights — doesn't always have to be that way, was powerful for us because we could use that internal data to support the external data that we had to say, "Yes, we have a lack of talent in the Bay Area here. This is what we're going to have to do about it based on what we're seeing internally and externally."

So those types of myth-busting are huge. Allowing them to see a different perspective using the data has changed things with our stakeholders. So yes.

[0:26:22] Sarah Morley: And I would say Lisa's an expert. I think Lisa's an expert, and I hope that I've learned well from her in this way. It's not even just "no," but also sometimes it's more like, "Okay, well, if you think this is happening, this is your hypothesis — if it's true or not — what are you going to do about it? Do you have the ability to take action?"

And sometimes it comes down to budget, authority, whatever. And oftentimes, what we say is, "Okay, well, let's focus. This is not something we could do — yes, we could go down this road and have the conversation for information — but if we're talking about action and change, let's focus on something in your remit that we have control over. Let's look at other things."

Because often what we've done is we'll go down and do this amazing work and have these great recommendations and actions we propose. And the answer is, "Oh, well, actually, we never had a budget for that in the first place," or, "Yeah." Right? And then we're like, "You know?"  

And so I think there are things. So then we go back to, "Okay, what are the things — whether it's with external data or internal data across our people analytics space — what are some areas where we can help you drive some meaningful action for your employees and for future talent?"

[0:27:35] David Wilkins: Yes, I love that. In sales organizations, there are varying kinds of qualification models. One simple one is MMAN — money, method, authority, and need. It almost sounds like you follow a little bit of that. Like, we'll engage, but only if you have the authority to make a decision, you genuinely have a need, you're going to do something about it, and you have a budget to do something. And I think that's a lovely model because, at the end of the day, it's a zero-sum game. You have finite resources and finite time to spend on internal projects. And so, to spend time on things that are ultimately not going to get actioned, or where there isn't a compelling benefit to the business, is just — it's silly. It's not worth your energy, and it distracts you from the impactful things that will move the needle.

[0:28:23] Lisa Rose: And you know, we need to train the business. Like, train the business to use us appropriately. And, sometimes, having those boundaries helps us operate much more efficiently.

[0:28:36] David Wilkins: Yes, exactly.

[0:28:37] Sarah Morley: I saw an interesting question. Here it is: How do you get the narrative and the intel right? How do you tell the story to senior leaders once you have the data?

And this is something we feel very passionate about. Like, this is who we are. This is the value we add. All of our providers — TalentNeuron specifically — create beautiful reports. Beautiful reports, super great interface, lovely.

But you need something more to influence somebody to do something with the report that you're sending. And that's where we come in and talk about that consultative role. And you have to find people who are passionate about it and hone their skills to help them become better storytellers, you know, to speak to more senior audiences.

And I would say the other thing is, like, you know, Lisa and I have beat that drum at many doors that get slammed in our face, and we just keep trying. And we do creative things like that video, right? To find different ways — other than decks and PowerPoints and the standard things — to get people to listen and hear the stories we have to tell.

[0:29:50] David Wilkins: So one of the key things I'm hearing through this conversation is that you're not just order takers. You're there to try to deliver meaningful value. And so I'm hearing you've effectively built an internal consultancy within Roche to do this well. And I'd be curious on a couple of fronts. Like, one, did you just stumble into that model? Was it deliberate? Was it from lessons learned and battle scars on the way? And then secondly, I'd be curious, you know, how do you position yourselves within the larger ecosystem of recruiting and comp and ben [compensation and benefits], and all the different teams? And how do you navigate through all of that and bind it together?

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[0:30:36] Lisa Rose: You want to take the first part, Sarah?

[0:30:38] Sarah Morley: Yeah. Let me take the first part. Great questions. I think there was definitely four or 4-ish years ago when Roche said, "We need to invest from an HR function — we need to invest more heavily and have some sort of program around people analytics." Was there intentionality about consultancy in that work as a service? And across the board, consultancy is a service that provides insights for people.

And so I think that there was some intentionality there. This idea of — and at the same time, Lisa brought her amazing experience with this amazing org and all of her knowledge and experience with talent and competitive intelligence. And then thinking about, okay, it's taken a little bit more time for us to move the needle with that specifically and combine that, embed this external competitive intelligence into that bigger consulting model.

But through the work that we've done and the impact that we've had, we were able to make the business case to say, "We need additional licenses so that our consultants can have this at the ready." They can access this information at the ready, so as they're actively consulting, they're not waiting on somebody else to provide it. They have the access, and so we did.

We spent a lot of time early this year training and educating. And I think we have about twenty people who are trained and able to do that, and that's a combination of our analysts and people who play that full-time consulting role. But yeah, I think there was absolutely a sense of intentionality about consulting, and then bringing this into the fold has taken a little bit more time and effort.

[0:32:37] Lisa Rose: This is not an overnight thing. It's not like Sarah and I were Shazam, and everyone was trained and stoked to do it. It just wasn't that way and continues to be a struggle. We talk about branding ourselves and wavering a way to go with that. We try to bring creativity and all of those things.

In terms of working with our partners, again, creativity is key. We brought back that evangelist role because we no longer exist in talent acquisition the way we did. We have folks in talent acquisition who are considered evangelists, and they're across the different chapters within talent acquisition. They can work with us on being clear about what they need, what is in scope for us, and what isn’t.

That’s really important when working with our partners: being clear about our scope. And if it's not in our scope, how can we help you think differently about what's in your scope? What data do you have access to? How do we — well, and Sarah will talk about this later — democratize the data?

Because right now, we have a licensing model, and that’s been wonderful for us. But I think that if we want to go to the next level, we need to have more data available.

The other thing about that is, for example, with one of our partners — compensation — we’re conscious that we don’t want to share salary data that differs from what compensation is sharing. And so we often partner with them to validate and say, “Okay, what are you seeing here?” That even enriches some of the insights they can bring back to the business and influences what kind of comp and benefits we’re considering in the future, depending on the region.

And it also kind of backs us off from trying to share a bunch of things that might create a tailspin internally. Those are some examples of how we work with our internal partners.

[0:34:34] Sarah Morley: And I also think Lisa and I — we don’t consider ourselves to be experts in every domain across the employee life cycle — and we value, we so value the network that we have in our organization because we do have experts. We have experts who are specifically experts in mobility for TAPs [Talent Acquisition Program]. And so we can pull in people we need, and we have great working relationships across our different areas, where we can say, “Hey, we’re working on this. There’s a compensation piece, or there’s a benefits piece, or there’s some mobility piece. We want an expert to come in and work on this with us.”

Of course, that comes with setting customer expectations because every time you collaborate, it takes more time. But we do have a nice network set up. I think we’ve done a nice job appreciating each other for our expertise and not feeling the pressure that anyone has to be the deepest expert in any domain.

[0:35:39] David Wilkins: That's fantastic. I think your point about sort of knowing where you play and where you bring unique value and where they do is that you are not trying to trip over into somebody else's domain, but instead partnering — everything because you could easily get sucked into this vortex of becoming everything to everyone.

That said, I am curious. With your success, have you seen your remit expand? And have you sort of gradually moved into new domains or new areas? I have to believe the answer is yes.

[0:36:13] Lisa Rose: Well, Sarah gave us the first entrée, along with Chris (who's actually on this call), into mergers and acquisition, which was exciting. And Sarah, you can add some color commentary there.

[0:36:25] Sarah Morley: I mean, I think with education, we continue to educate, democratize, enable, create evangelist communities, and interest. Of course, there's more demand and requests for different types of things. And then we just have to keep doing what we're doing. Lisa has worked diligently on the scope of what we do and what we don't do. And like we said, we have made the case because of how we track and monitor our work. We can quantify and qualify the importance of some of the work we're doing.

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We have several team members that can participate in this work. But as we're building more expertise and evangelists, they can also take some of that load from us and have some of those conversations — which is, you know, the time-consuming part. It isn't the getting the data and running the reports; that's not the time-consuming part. It's the conversation, understanding the business problem, and making recommendations — you know, the follow-up.

[0:37:34] David Wilkins: Right.

[0:37:35] Sarah Morley: We did this. What are the actions, and what, you know, what are we going to move forward with? Are we not? And then that also informs what our scope should and shouldn't be, right? Lisa and I would say we're pretty patient-intolerant, but after we do something a couple of times and realize that it's not going anywhere, we're okay also to have that conversation and say, hey, it doesn't seem like this is action-ready. So, staying in that scope is important.

[0:38:04] David Wilkins: That's fantastic. I have one more question, and we'll open it up to the audience. So, you've talked a lot about how everything has evolved. Now, this new move into mergers and acquisitions is so exciting. It must be a blast to take on something new. What else is going on? What are you most excited about regarding the future, and where are you taking this whole thing?

[0:38:26] Lisa Rose: I just saw — and this folds into the future question — I just saw a question about solutions for smaller organizations who need this data. And the future for us is helping people understand that it's not one answer, you know? It's not one answer. You don't just go to TalentNeuron — although TalentNeuron's amazing — and this we get from you guys. Ridiculous. Alex Parker. And that's wonderful. But if you don't have that capability, so much is available online. Yeah. Like, you Google that and create a list of sources you feel you can trust. Talk to them and understand where they get their data and how they validate it — whether they do or not.

But there's a lot of free resources and a lot of data. ChatGPT can also be quite helpful, especially depending on your particular industry. You can get a lot of labor market data there. It's all things that — it takes a little while to figure out how to read through it — but that's an incredible resource.

And I think that feeding into the future is: how do we diversify what we are looking at so that we don't become too blind or blindered about the type of data we're feeding? Our patients are changing. The world is changing. Data is changing. And we want to make sure that we're not too stuck in our ways in terms of the future.

[0:40:10] Sarah Morley: I think that just in case our quality team — our quality and security team — is watching, ChatGPT is great, but make sure you're using it in alignment with your organization's rules for security and data privacy.

[0:40:27] David Wilkins: That feels like a disclaimer, Sarah. Well done.

[0:40:31] Sarah Morley: I also have a heart for data privacy. So, a little diverging there. But yes, make sure that you're doing that. As Lisa said in the little video she and I created to help educate internally about what we do, the last scenario is I do a "let me Google that for you," so somebody asks, what's the unemployment rate in this state? Like, you're not sure or know where to get it. Google is a great place to start. As Lisa said, there's just so much free information out there.

When I think about our future and where we are right now, one of the things we are looking at is how we blend and scale this data. And so we're focused on an API — more of an API solution, data feed — to incorporate this information with our internal data and blend it in a more automated format. So we don't have people that are the blocker for that, or people doing that manually. And I think the other part of that is being able to democratize that information. And so, you know, being able to create internal products where anybody. Leaders and other people within our HR organization can go in and do the same things that we're doing in a much easier way without going through a vendor's front end. And so that is — that's kind of where we are.

And I think the other important thing for me is seeing a couple of messages in the chat. One thing that happens when you start using data throughout is that you've got your HCM [Human Capital Management] and your ATS [Applicant Tracking System]. You've got all these different systems with all this different data. You start looking at internal and external; one of the things that blows up quickly is the taxonomies you're using.

It's like your HCM; somebody has put in their skills section that they're like a cat dad, and that's great. However, that is not helpful when trying to think about that software engineer. And is cat dad a skill that we want to use?

And so I think that taxonomies are something else that is going to be important for us to really think about both internally and also externally with the vendors that we use to make sure that we can speak the same language across these different datasets and be able to come up with really meaningful things.

[0:43:01] Lisa Rose: One thing I want to say that speaks to both branding and the future: I would like you to know that right now, we have a quarterly business review that we provide to the business that includes internal insights. This is the first time we've also started including external insights into those.

So, in terms of the future and our brand, being able to marry some of those reports they're used to seeing — all of the internal stuff — with a little bit of external signaling can be powerful, especially considering where we are with the economy.

We have competitors close to what’s important to us, so that has been powerful. It’s also, again, building our brand at the same time.

[0:43:48] David Wilkins: That's amazing. This has been amazing. We're going to open it up for questions. I just want to make a couple of quick comments about a couple of things you just referred to.

So first, literally this week, I was talking to Ellen, our SVP of strategic consulting, and we both thought we'd start a rap — like job architecture and skills is where it's at. That was a terrible rap. But I thought, in keeping with your video, I would also try to be authentic and expose my lack of skills.

But there's something there where I think, to your point, if we don't find a way to bind this stuff together in a meaningful way across this, then it gets really hard to try to connect the dots in the different systems and the different data spaces we're playing in. We're increasingly of the opinion that the job architecture and skills framework is one of the most important binding mechanisms across things, and it's often where organizations are the weakest. So there's probably still some work to be done in that area.

And then I would just say one other quick thing, which is the move you're trying to make toward using APIs or data feeds into a centralized data lake — or a lake house of some kind — and then with the notion of democratizing things and opening it all up for business leaders to make more informed decisions in their daily work; that is something we're seeing across our most mature organizations. So you're in good company with other very successful brands trying to go down that same road.

I think it's still a little ways away from full maturity. There's a lot to figure out what that all looks like. But I'm excited that you're on that journey because I think that's the next phase of all of this: to get the data in one place, build out really interesting interfaces for leaders, and have it at the fingertips of the entire organization. That's the next level of this stuff.

[0:45:47] Sarah Morley: We share your dream.

[0:45:49] David Wilkins: Excellent. We'll go there together. So this was an awesome, organized portion of this. And you've been doing a great job already looking through the chat. John, are there any things that have jumped out that we haven't tackled yet that you'd like to point us at as a starter for the Q&A section?

[0:46:09] John Lynch: Just a couple of quick comments from folks. More wrapping. So, Dave, you may have an opportunity in future webinars. We can.

[0:46:21] David Wilkins: This is recorded too. So this is going to be bad. I know it already. But please, go on.

[0:46:30] John Lynch: Also, Lisa, your sweater is excellent. That's the that's the verdict from the chat.

[0:46:34] Lisa Rose: We planned this. Sarah and I called each other ahead of time. She's got a leopard shirt on. So, you know, look for the Easter eggs everywhere. And cat moms, cat dads.

[0:46:48] Sarah Morley: Cat things.

[0:46:50] David Wilkins: If I had known, I would have found a cat sweater, not a dog.

[0:46:53] John Lynch: We'll build on this theme. There are a couple of really good questions. I think one — Suzanne Hernandez, Paul Abrams, and some others have been asking more specifically about your team — like, the makeup of your team and which skills you need within that group to be able to do the work that you're doing within Roche.

[0:47:15] Sarah Morley: Cat things. That's a great question. So, our people analytics team has a pretty mature group in the people analytics arena. We have our people insights consultants or insights of our partners, and they really fill this consulting role. We have insights analysts who play that data analyst role. And then we also have this huge tech background that we bring. We have data and software engineers, data scientists, organizational scientists, and several others. BI developers handle all of our business intelligence and dashboard development.

So we do have a pretty robust structure. I would say that we spend the majority of our time right now, from a talent competitive intelligence perspective, with our data analysts and our insights partners doing that consulting with the business. And then, in the long term, we're going to have — we've started to bring in our engineers, data scientists, and developers to talk about: What is this going to? What can the future look like with a bit of a different structure?

[0:48:21] Lisa Rose: I would say, too, that the insights analysts and the insights partners have to have some baseline passion or interest in it. And that really makes for the best kind of partners. So there's more of a subset of those folks who work with us, are focused in that area, and help us come up with, "Okay, that’s a new business case. Do we have the data for that?" So you still follow the passion where you can.

[0:48:53] David Wilkins: It's fantastic. There's another great question that just came in from Angus, which I think you’ll have a great perspective on: How do these roles integrate with the HRBP and the strategy for the area or business unit? So, how are you guys connecting at that level of the business?

[0:49:10] Lisa Rose: Particularly with our commercial organization — our sales and marketing — there's a lot more interest in understanding: where are we, what have we done, where are our competitors. Again, we're looking for business partners interested in this kind of data. Generally, they are so busy with their organizational changes and all of the things they do with a job they want to invite us in to do that work with them.

And that is something we're building over time, like the trust with our business partners — the business partners' trust to pass us along to the business if we don't already have a relationship there. But what we're noticing is that more questions are coming out of business partners that are CI, whether they know it or not. And that is just such a crave for us, and that is happening more and more as they are taking over global organizations, as things are moving really quickly.

So the environment and the economy are infusing that in the way we're working with business partners. Generally, the way to do that more tactically is to have an insights partner with specific business areas and a set of BP's we work with.

[0:50:34] David Wilkins: There's still that notion of, like, areas of responsibility, but given the fast and seemingly increasing pace of change and uncertainty, it sounds like they're relying more and more on you to infuse their decisions and create a symbiotic kind of relationship.

[0:50:54] Sarah Morley: And we have this — we’ve created a little bit of a community of practice for the practitioners for our insights partners, analysts, and then our evangelists involved in and supporting this work. We also say just because you get the request doesn't mean you're going to be the one, or we are very flexible in who’s available with expertise in this area that we can pull in to help support this. And it is nice to have a bit of a larger group of people that we can pull from when those things come up.

[0:51:26] David Wilkins: That makes sense. There was an earlier question we didn't get to that I thought was also really good. You've given some examples of the influences you've had on the business over the years. Is there any one thing that stands out to you where — and obviously, be judicious in how you answer this — I don't want you to answer anything that, you know, is proprietary or confidential info. But was there any particular decision where you feel the business would have gone off the rails and made a very poor decision without your input? Or was there a situation where you were particularly effective or insightful in helping the business get to a point where they made a really effective choice?

[0:52:16] Sarah Morley: I would say in our mergers and acquisitions area. I think it's less about worrying about people going off the rails and more about informing them about potential risks and watch-outs. And so I don't think that we see ourselves in that kind of, like, savior-like bright light.

You're thinking about going into this market or this location we've never been in before. They have turnover there you've never experienced. How are you planning on handling that? We're looking at this other company, and we're considering it. You know, they have really low tenure. While they have workforce tenure of, you know, ten or fifteen years, they've only been at this company, and there are of them. They've only been at this company for an average of 1 year. What are we getting from a talent perspective here?

And so I think we have more power in helping people think through, ask questions, and be prepared. Right? So people at least are informed about what they might be encountering. And I think those — I would say that some of those are where I'm most proud. Of course, there's certainly where we warn and warn and warn, and we're like, this is a bad idea, or we have many concerns.

They do it anyway. The and the world goes on.

[0:53:32] Lisa Rose: I think cost avoidance is one of the areas where CI is incredibly powerful. We have many organizations that see retention risks and immediately want to offer a retention bonus. But we’re like, wait a second — let's look at the market and see what's actually happening before spending a lot of money. Have we measured whether that’s effective from an internal data and insights perspective? And also, what’s happening externally that might change your mindset? From an analytics standpoint, are there any predictive analytics we can use — which we do — around retention risk? So yes, cost avoidance is a key area where CI adds real value.

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0:54:24] David Wilkins: What I'm hearing is that you've moved beyond the early "hero" stage—trying to save something — and instead are embedded in everyday decision-making, impacting everything. That's awesome. We'll just go ahead and say that's true — it's a webinar.

[0:54:48] Lisa Rose: 2,000 people on the line.

[0:54:50] David Wilkins: That's fine. Alright, time for one last question — and it's a good one. A few people are asking how the work you're doing with competitive intelligence and market intelligence integrates into your strategic workforce planning strategies. I can imagine it being involved at the beginning, middle, or throughout the process. But I'm curious — how does that play out in practice?

[0:55:23] Lisa Rose: That's all you, Sarah.

[0:55:25] Sarah Morley: Okay. This is an area where we have a close partnership with another team. We respect their expertise, and I think they respect ours. We often work together on the same projects and programs.

What helps here is how we've positioned our function — we don't just look at what's happening internally; we also provide insight into external trends. That's key for strategic workforce planning. We look at the full employee lifecycle internally, then assess what else we need to understand externally.

I think that model works really well. Lisa and I are humble enough to say, "I don't know — this is your expertise. What are your thoughts?"

It's a strong thought partnership. We bring expertise in data and insights and a global view across the organization. We support the storytelling and recommendations, and they bring their workforce planning expertise.

[0:56:50] Lisa Rose:

They also have access to different data sources, which is always interesting. We're like, "Wait — what are you using for skills?" That's one area where I think there's a real opportunity to collaborate more closely with SWP. They sit within our talent acquisition team, so there's room for more bridge-building.

[0:57:16] David Wilkins:

Yes, absolutely. I see that future, too — bringing everything together into one comprehensive suite of capabilities.

We're almost out of time. I'll leave John a minute to wrap up the logistics. But first, thank you. This session was fantastic — just as I expected. You gave the audience great insights into evolving from a new concept to a mature strategy.

You're both incredibly talented. I encourage everyone to connect with Lisa and Sarah on LinkedIn. They've offered to be reachable and will accept your invite if you're interested in this space.

And we will be doing more together — we're going to be on stage at ReimagineHR in Orlando in October. So if you want more of the Lisa-Sarah show, come find us there.

We're already planning our outfits.

[0:58:15] David Wilkins:

I'm a little scared about the outfits. I'm afraid I'll end up in cat ears or something. I guess I'll be a cat dad. Anyway, John, over to you for the wrap-up and HRCI credits.

[0:58:32] John Lynch:

Awesome. Thanks, David. For anyone joining for HRCI credits, here's the accreditation number you'll need. Please note it for future webinars as well.

Thank you again for joining us. It's been a very action-packed hour. If we didn't get to your questions, we'll follow up and provide any additional info.

And as Dave said, if you're attending Gartner Reimagine, please come say hello.

Thank you again to everyone — especially Lisa and Sarah — for your time. It's been a pleasure having you.

[0:59:17] David Wilkins: Thanks all.

[0:59:18] Sarah Morley: Thanks so much for having us.

[0:59:20] Lisa Rose: Thank you.

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